Tuesday, September 3, 2013

Eyewitness Account Courtesy of Kadoe


                          Eyewitness Account Courtesy of Kadoe

                               

I do not want to endanger my relative who witnessed this. The witness was turning into a private drive off Cool St at approx 5:30am the morning of the abduction. Waiting to cross the drive were 4 adults and a blonde haired toddler. They waved my relative on, because the relative had stopped to let them pass. My relative was within a few feet of these people. Also located at this spot was a street light. A man 40ish, gray leather coat, short brown hair, neatly trimmed beard, was carrying a blonde haired toddler, no hat, wrapped in a child's coat. the child appeared to be sleeping. Next in line was a shorter female wearing a blue parka. She wore furry winter boots. She reached up and touched the baby's face and said something. Next in line was a very tall lanky young man (looked italian or mexican) wearing a black NY baseball hat. The fourth person was behind the lanky fellow. This person was black, the witness could not tell if it was male or female. These people got into an older model sedan which was parked partially on the sidewalk and drove south on Cool St. Waterville police were notified a few days after the witness had seen this. I believe the info was given to a dispatcher. Several days went by and no one had called the witness. I stopped into the police station and questioned why no one had contacted the witness. They told me the state police was handling it, and gave me their #. I called the state police and the witness was contacted the following day. One evening as the witness and spouse were watching the news, Phoebe and Justin were being interviewed. The witness turned to the spouse and said that's the woman I saw with the blonde toddler that morning. I again called MSP and told them this story, and asked them to call the witness to verify this. They did, in fact they picked the witness up and went to the scene of the siting. End of story. LE has never contacted the witness again. I did a little digging myself and found out Phoebe used to work at Kmart in waterville. I know people who have worked there for several years, and they said Phoebe aways wore furry boots in the winter months. I did email the head of MSP, and was contacted by a detective. We had a lenghty discussion, and he said they would re-look at this lead. The witness has never been contacted again. I do have a source who informed me that a male that was at the DiPietro house the night prior to the adbuction, was killed in an auto accident. 
(Edited to remove identifying information and information that was in direct communication with myself that was not relative to this account.)

Early on Kadoe commented online that a relative of theirs had seen something on Violette Ave where it connects to Cool St. Instantly many disregarded the info because they felt confident Ayla was deceased. Others who perceived LE's information about the case were not so quick to dismiss it. Some people who believe Ayla was abducted, believe so because they believe that this person is telling the truth and the story makes sense to them.

One thing that is certain is that despite claims from some, Kadoe's story has never changed. The public has gotten it confused with other eyewitness accounts and melded the different accounts together like the game of telephone but any original posting by Kadoe has always contained the same key information. Around January, my stepmother in law had told me that while driving home one night from work a few days before Ayla disappeared she had seen 3 people transfer a baby from a old Buick or similar car into a white van. She noticed the exchange because the child appeared to be sleeping but wasnt wearing a winter coat. She was so angry she called CPS to report it and even had the plate numbers to the vehicles. It wasn't until weeks after Ayla went missing did she remember this incident on Cool St. and called MSP. An officer went to the scene with her while she reenacted what she had seen. They got her info and she was never contacted again. As much as I believe my stepmother in law saw something that night, I am hesitant to believe it was Ayla. When I was blogging before J4A reopened, I ran with the story even though I knew there were too many holes. That story and my retelling of it is what caused many to confuse the two accounts and therefore make Kadoe's story unbelievable to many. The ones who were able to differentiate between the two accounts decided whether or not to believe Kadoe's account. Regardless of whether or not Kadoe has been believed hasn't stopped Kadoe from continuing to share their story and continuing to speak for Ayla.

Could it be possible that LE feels those in the house aren't telling all they know because one or more orchestrated Ayla being sent away to live with relatives or a family that would keep her safe? Is it possible there wasn't any sign of a break in because there wasn't one and Ayla was taken out of the house? Is it possible that the blood found of Ayla's was because someone was being abusive or rough with her and another family member intervened to keep her safe? Did this family member know that it was a real possibility that they would wake up to a dead toddler if they didn't act and they knew if they told Justin what they had done or were planning on doing that he would become enraged? 
  
                           
        
  

Was Ayla put to bed between 8-10pm and was it really the last time Justin saw her? Wouldn't Phoebe know Ayla's sleeping arrangements or where to look for her if she was moved? Would Phoebe coming home late to her own house raise any suspicions if someone were to awake and find her there? She would have a key to let herself in if the door was locked. 

I was told by a reporter early on that McCausland had confirmed to them that Phoebe had an alibi and was in Augusta that night with a man. Was this man meeting Phoebe to facilitate things? How much did LE investigate this man? Was he administered a polygraph test. Was Phoebe given one?

It seems unlikely that if this scenario did happen that the people who took Ayla would not have come forward by now but some people are desperate for children and might not want to give up the perfect little girl that fell into their hands. It is likely that they would only have to wait things out for a few months before Ayla's features would start to change. Toddlers can look drastically different as they grow. If it was a family member of Phoebe's who helped her, they may not want to get her in trouble, knowing she was doing what she thought was the right thing for Ayla and that may be incentive enough not to come forward. 


                                     Does Ayla still look anything like this? It is doubtful. 

49 comments:

  1. Thanks Kadoe I have always been very interested in this eyewitness account of the exchange.

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  2. Kadoe,

    Thanks. I believe your relative saw what he or she has stated.
    It also sounds like it was checked out thoroughly by the detectives. The important thing is that MSP was informed and the person who witnessed this was persistent.

    I don't know if it was related to Ayla or not. Whatever MSP may have learned from this, I'm sure they wouldn't relay that to your relative, for investigative reasons.
    I appreciate you sharing the account, and mentioning it often.
    I do not dismiss the account.



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    1. Kadoe, I also believe your relative saw what they think they did, but I also believe the police checked it out. Phoebe "apparently" has a solid alibi!

      There was also talk, earlier, that your relative saw Phoebe's space between her two upper front teeth. A lot of people have that. Sorry Kadoe, no offense meant, but your relative gives a lot of descriptions for the brief period seen under a street light at 5:00 in the morning (especially not even knowing a child was missing!).

      The police have stated Phoebe's alibi checks out, they must have proof! I can't imagine why they would blow this sighting off if there was any merit to it.

      signed:getrealpeople

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    2. I tend to believe that an accident happened and was covered up, my gut tells me Phoebe wasn't there or privy to it or she would most likely demanding they bring her to the ER and call police but I don't know Phoebe just basing it off what my mother would do or what myself as a mother would know the right thing to do is. I also as a parent would go to the ends of the earth to protect my child instinctively.

      Is that to say that Kadoe's relative didn't see a seriously injured or no longer alive Ayla being transferred to whomever was going to finish the job? I don't know. There is a lot not known in this case and even those people who think they have it all figured out are bound to find out eventually that they were not 100% correct.

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    3. Tori says, "There is a lot not known in this case and even those people who think they have it all figured out are bound to find out eventually that they were not 100% correct."

      That pretty much sums it up in a nutshell!

      signed:getrealpeople

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  3. Tori...take or leave what I'm saying, your choice, but I'm concerned seeing pictures of Ava on the blog. The blog is public. Your full name is known. Anyone who wanted to could find out where you live. You posted pics of your daughter for any perv to see. I get you were trying to make a point but it concerns me to see that. I'm not criticizing, I'm looking out for Ava's safety. Please rethink having her picture up.

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    1. Thank you Dee for your concern and I appreciate it. I thought long and hard before I decided to use Ava's pictures and discussed it with her father first who was not happy with the idea to begin with, this post has been in the works for weeks but he finally gave me the go ahead to use them. My Facebook is private but I have many friends on there I don't really know personally, at one point my whole families pictures were posted on juststopthelies.blogspot.com so the exposure is already there. Ava changes in appearance weekly and is almost 4 1/2 now and looks so much different than the pictures I posted below. I am going to leave them for now and in a few days will remove her pictures. 😊

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    2. Ava is a cutie pie!

      That said, I echo Dee's concerns, Tori.

      I think we all know that toddlers' features rapidly change. I understand and appreciate that you were trying to drive this point home by example.

      My two cents...remove Ava's pictures. Now. You and your family have been a target in the past. Privacy, security, and safety should never be compromised.

      Again, I applaud your intentions. But the risk is far too great.

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    3. How could anyone in that brief space of time at that hour of the morning, even under a streetlight account for that many details about that many people? Your relative should be on the police force...what a mind!

      The story started out much more simply and with each retelling it grows in scope.

      What I do not understand what propels the story-telling, or exaggeration of the story?

      Do I believe a relative could have seen, in a bried time, some people on Cool St. Maybe. Could he/she amassed in such a short time all the intricate details?

      I cal it bogus. Bid for attention? Fiction writer at heart?

      LE says the story "went nowhere". I can understand why.

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    4. Maybe they took a picture with their phone I don't know.

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    5. That will be a "detail" that will appear later.

      Honestly check the first accounts of this tale...it grows like Topsy!

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    6. One thing that always made me wonder was the distance. To walk from the DiPietros to Cool St isn't just a block, it's a bit of a hike. And to park on Cool, walk up to the house, then back again? I don't see why. It would increase the chances of being seen. It just seems weird if one is trying to get away with something.

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    7. Michelle, do you live in waterville? It is NOT a hike down to cool st. It's actually down hill from their house, and takes about 2 minutes.

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    8. I've been up their street many times since I have friends in the area. Their house isn't far up the street, but it's far enough that it seems weird that someone would do that, especially if they're trying to be covert. It was a cold night, and they were carrying a sleeping toddler. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

      I haven't been up the street and gauged how far up they live from Cool Street, but from what I remember, it's not that close. They live about half way up, don't they? That isn't very close for walking in the cold at night, and (like I said) carrying a sleeping tot.

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    9. Another Reynolds in MaineSeptember 25, 2013 at 12:30 PM

      As I sit here reading all your posts, I am trying to understand why no one has asked, 'Why if a family member took Ayla because she was being mistreated by someone and there was proof why they did not come forward and state why they had her, there would of been no damage done by trying to protect a precious little baby. The truth in this matter is Ayla needs to come home so her mother can find a way to try to understand why someone could have done this, she deserves closure in this nightmare. Ayla deserves to be put to rest if she is no longer here on earth. I too go past the house where Ayla was staying with her father and in my heart I believe her father did something to her to stop Trista from getting her back. Why should Justin be walking around Waterville while his daughter is some place she does not know where she is and is trying to find her mother. Justin be a man and give them the peace they need and deserve.

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  4. Anon 6:17 you may be onto something but I think there's a more favorable explanation. The way the human brain is designed, it incorporates new information with old so that in retelling a story, if you add a detail to try to fill a gap, that will become embedded in the memory. This is because it is the brain's role to make sense of things.

    Up to 25% of eyewitness testimony is incorrect. The eyewitness may strongly believe what he's saying but that doesn't make it accurate. Some interesting details: it's especially hard to identify color under a street light (note that this account gives several specific colors of coats, hair, etc.) and such color identifications may not be reliable; there is also no correlation between eyewitness account accuracy and the eyewitness' certainty of what he saw.

    I believe Kadoe's relative did see something along the lines of what Kadoe described and strongly believes it was as Kadoe described. Does that mean he saw Ayla with Phoebe and three other adults? No, though it is possible. There are flags though suggesting the information should be looked at with caution.

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    1. I agree with you CG.

      Imagine that! :)

      signed:getrealpeople

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    2. I would of thought the percentage of eyewitness testimony is even higher that 25%.

      Isn't it amazing how we can be be so sure that we thought we saw, or heard, something, and can be so wrong! (Sorry Kadoe, not meant towards your relative, just speaking from everyday life.)

      signed:getrealpeople

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  5. A dead baby would "appear" to be sleeping while carried too.

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    1. CG hi good to hear from you.I agree on the percentage thing. Where I worked we had to train people to run machinery. We were given a manual and the machine company would show us how it worked. They made the statement that what they showed us we retained 50%. We in turn would train people so that meant the people we trained retained only 25%. That was the reason for the manual to reference until we had the experience of running the machine. So what someone tells you, you are fortunate if you can remember 50% of what you are told accurately although I am sure there are some exceptions.

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  6. just read the new post. my relative is sure that phoebe was on cool st that morning with a blond haired toddler and 3 other adults. simple as that. kadoe

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    1. Hey, Kadoe...consider this:

      Your relative is right.

      It might just be why there has been no arrest in this case.

      I'm not dismissing your relative's eyewitness account.

      LE might not be either.

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  7. OT
    http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-man-held-3-women-captive-found-dead-043015182.html

    I hope his victims can now sleep at night he can hurt them no longer.

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  8. The way the human brain is designed, it incorporates new information with old so that in retelling a story, if you add a detail to try to fill a gap, that will become embedded in the memory. This is because it is the brain's role to make sense of things.

    Up to 25% of eyewitness testimony is incorrect. The eyewitness may strongly believe what he's saying but that doesn't make it accurate.

    If this statement is accurate meaning true and I believe it is,Then what % of information a person is shown and told, will be accurate when that person re tells it 8 months later?

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    1. My only reason for mentioning the % question is some one out there may have the stats,on it no malice intended and not to upset anyone.I just know there are studies on everything and was just curious.

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    2. That's a good question Dana.

      Another question is...lets see if I can word this right...How much does an already formed opinion have on what you are hearing?

      Jeff has stated that Trista was shown specific and *probable causes* of evidence.
      Probable is presumption, not proof.

      So if Trista is presented with these *probable causes*, does her already formed opinion effect the way she interprets these probable causes?

      It's just something to think about.


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    3. Dana, I agree with your concept that there's likely to be some deterioration in the quality of any information repeated 8 months later. On the one hand, Jeff says he will be relying on the memory of three people, not one, and that is probably a useful check against error. But if the three have talked about it over the 8 months, and I find it hard to imagine they haven't at all, then their recollections may have subtly changed without their even knowing it to accommodate information supplied by the others.

      Think about police interviewing witnesses. They don't want to talk to them together but separately. It's not because everyone is out to snooker them but because it's human nature to reconcile discrepant information and that means someone can be inadvertently supplying inaccurate information.

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    4. I agree CG and I do not dislike Trista or do I think she would lie to get even with Justin over hurt feelings. The only thing I would question is unless LE says Alex and his mother were present all we have to go on is LE said the only ones shown and told the evidence was family members. Courtney nor Derek were present why would Alex and his mother be. It is Trista's boyfriend and his mother. Wouldn't you think Justins girlfriend would have been allowed too?Trista could have told Alex and his mother what she was shown, and Courtney and Derek could have been told I agree with.

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    5. Anon 1, I'm not sure I fully understand your question. The probable causes, as I understand it, is causes of how Ayla was injured/killed as determined from analyzing the blood evidence. I don't think Trista would have a pre-formed opinion on this. Unless she is secretly into forensics, how would she have any knowledge of what the blood evidence means without police telling her?

      As far as her believing Justin (or someone else there) inflicted an injury v. Ayla suffering one another way, the fact that he is Ayla's father could not help but favorably color her impression of him IMO. It is pretty hard for anyone to believe the man she loved, the man who fathered her baby, would kill that baby. Her past reactions also testify to this. Despite her misgivings, she encouraged a relationship between Justin and Ayla. She said on more than one occasion she trusted him. If she is at the point where she believes he is responsible for Ayla's death, then that evidence must be pretty convincing and pretty horrific.

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    6. Anon 1 that is a good question.This is probably the opposite of what you mean. I know of an instance where a young teenager was arrested for a crime and he told me he didn't do it. He had never lied to me before and a good kid so I believed him. He asked me what to do I told him if you didn't do it enter a not guilty plea. They scared him so bad with prison time of 10 years he entered a plea of no contest and served 30 days in the county jail rather than run the risk the judge wouldn't believe him. Even though I heard what LE said what happened I still believe the young man.

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    7. CG I agree it would have to be pretty horrific and convincing.

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    8. Dana, no I do not. I think there's a fundamental difference between telling Trista her baby is dead and showing her graphic proof in the company of those she selects to support her and the other situations you mentioned. My guess is the detective would have suggested she not face this alone and would have offered coping resources.

      The situation is different with Justin. What happened to Ayla happened while she was in his house and he is one of the people police think have some sort of knowledge about it already. His mom and sister were also there to the extent he might need emotional support.

      Because Courtney was one of the three reported to be in the house the night before Ayla was reported missing, I would think police would want to show the evidence to her separately to get her to break ranks with the other two. If they wanted to show it to Derek who also was said to be at the DiPietro's house on the 16th, they might likewise avoid showing him together with Justin for strategic reasons.

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    9. "LE said the only ones shown and told the evidence was family members. Courtney nor Derek were present why would Alex and his mother be"

      ...That'a another good question Dana.
      I can understand that Trista would have wanted someone to be present with her at this meeting with MSP.

      What I question is would MSP share information that may jeopardize the case (as Trista has said) in the presence of Alex, a boyfriend, and his mother?

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    10. If that is the case CG then LE should say they were shown the evidence. I would have thought Ron and Becca would have been there that I could understand.Or even Jeff.

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    11. CG I do want to thank you for sharing your thoughts on all of this. thanks for being patient.

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    12. CG,

      I'm not sure what exactly the *probable causes* refers to. Or what Trista was shown. Was it the luminol glow photo's? Was she then read or told results from test done on the area's with luminol glow?
      The problem is I don't know enough about what she was shown or told.

      My question would probably be more suitable to ask after we learn what Trista was shown.
      No, I don't think she has forensic knowledge.

      I think she believed long before she was shown any evidence on Jan. 3 that Ayla is deceased. She expressed so even before the May 31 PC.
      My question was more about her having a prior opinion that Ayla is deceased effecting the way she processed the *probable causes*, ..depending on what those *probable causes* are.

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    13. "CG I do want to thank you for sharing your thoughts on all of this".

      I agree Dana.
      While I may not agree with CG's opinions, I like hearing her thoughts. They often lead me to think about different things, in different ways.

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  9. Looking At The FactsSeptember 4, 2013 at 9:36 AM

    I really have no comment on what people did or didn't see or thought they saw. I did find this that I thought was interesting to read. According to this study the percentage is much higher than 25%

    Studies have shown that mistaken eyewitness testimony accounts for about half of all wrongful convictions. Researchers at Ohio State University examined hundreds of wrongful convictions and determined that roughly 52 percent of the errors resulted from eyewitness mistakes. Legal scholar Edwin Borchard studied 65 cases of "erroneous criminal convictions of innocent people." Mistaken eyewitness identification was responsible for approximately 45 percent of Borchard's case studies.
    http://www.crf-usa.org/bill-of-rights-in-action/bria-13-3-c-how-reliable-are-eyewitnesses

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    1. Looking At The FactsSeptember 4, 2013 at 9:38 AM

      I also wanted to add years ago I worked at a bank and we were robbed. After everyone was interviewed by police we found out not one of us could describe the same things and nothing matched exactly what the cameras caught.

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    2. Interesting studies, LATF. However they don't mean the error rate in eyewitness IDs is 52% or 45%. I'm no statistician but the studies you cite involve selected sample of wrongful convictions. You can't take that percentage and apply it to a general population that includes all eyewitness testimony.

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    3. Looking At The FactsSeptember 4, 2013 at 11:51 AM

      CG
      You are right I read it wrong but even just the statistics in this study show how unreliable an eyewitness can be.

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  10. Haven't heard anything from Rose lately and mckee must be out for a break Hi you 2

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  11. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    1. and you would know because........

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    2. You are sooo right. I should call the nursing home and see if they habe internet access for the alzheimer and other patients jacked up on handfuls of meds. But anyway I am pretty sure his 'relative' is a patient there........

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  12. Nursing home is VERY close to the intersection of viollette ave.....

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