Sunday, March 4, 2012

Revisiting Ayla's Broken Arm

There has been much speculation over Ayla’s broken arm. How did it really happen? Did it happen just as Justin says, slipping and falling on top of her, or was it caused by abuse? Why did a doctor initially suspect abuse and then did not follow up with a report with DHHS?

I think the first step to figuring out some answers to the above questions is to learn about fractures.

Some people think that there is a difference in saying it’s just a fracture and not a broken bone but in reality a fracture is medical terminology for a broken bone. Fracture and broken are used interchangeably. As is usual in the medical world there are different classifications of fractures: open fractures, closed fractures, displaced fractures, fissure, hairline fracture, greenstick fracture, multiple fracture, and many more.

Ayla had a fractured forearm. There are two bones in the forearm, the ulna and the radius. A fracture in the forearm can consist of one of the bones or both. Children have open growth plates to allow bones to grow; growth plates can get injured when an arm is fractured which can cause discrepancies in how long the limbs are or deformities. Children’s bones are softer and more flexible which means they are more likely to bend than to break resulting in incomplete break like a greenstick fracture.

 Forearm fractures are common in children, 40% to 50% of childhood fractures are forearm fractures. 3 out of 4 forearm fractures are fractures in the wrist-end of the radius; this is usually caused by children breaking their fall by putting their arms out to catch themselves.

Bonnes in the arm



Growth Plate

 
Different types of fractures














A doctor told DiPietro that Ayla's forearm was broken, it might require surgery and Ayla would need to see a specialist.

Justin chose to see Dr. James Kuhn at MaineOrtho in Portland

"He looked over the X-rays, and said, 'I don't know what they told you initially, but this isn't as bad as they said,'" Justin recalled. "They just put a splint on there with an Ace bandage. She didn't even have a cast or a sling or anything like that."

DiPietro said Ayla's arm was healing well in the days before she disappeared.

"Her arm was to the point now, before all this happened, that she was lifting it up. She wasn't bending it, but she would take (the splint) off sometimes, and she was getting to the point where she was starting to use that arm again," he said

Based on Justin’s description and what we learned about fractures there are two types of fractures common in children that make sense:
  1. greenstick fracture: an incomplete fracture owing to a child’s softer bones. A very common children’s fracture, in which a portion of the bone is broken, causing the other side to bend (as with a live stick or branch from a tree).
  2. buckle (torus) fracture: another type of incomplete fracture, in which one side of the bone buckles upon itself without disrupting the other side; a common fracture of the arm, resulting from impact, such as falling on an outstretched hand; can heal more quickly than the similar greenstick fracture.

Dependent upon the doctor and exactly where the fracture occurred on the radius or ulna (or both), a cast or splint may be used for treatment. What Justin describes they put on Ayla is in fact a splint, not a soft cast http://www.dressings.org/Dressings/scotch.softcast.html, and would look similar to the picture below.


A greenstick fracture stabilized with a splint.


DiPietro, 24, said the accident occurred on a rainy night in November, but he's unsure of the exact date.

DiPietro had just returned from the grocery store with Ayla. He went into his mother's home on Violette Avenue with bags of groceries in one arm and Ayla in the other.

"I was carrying her," he recalled during a Thursday interview with the Morning Sentinel. "Usually I let her walk, but it was raining out that night and it was dark."

DiPietro said he walked in the side door at 29 Violette Ave. and up a short set of stairs leading into the kitchen.

"I came up the stairs and slipped. It happened so fast, I don't know exactly how I fell on her, but I fell on her," he said. "It's burned into my brain."

His mother, Phoebe DiPietro, 47, was in the next room.

"I was sitting in the living room with my daughter, and we heard a big thump," she recalled Thursday. "I immediately went to the kitchen and Ayla was scared, obviously. I picked her up."

Phoebe DiPietro said Justin's wrist was injured in the fall, but Ayla appeared to be OK.

"I was more worried about (Justin's) wrist, because he's broken it into 39 pieces (in a snowboard accident)," she said.

Everything seemed normal afterward, they said. The family sat down for a lasagna dinner, then put Ayla into pajamas for the night.

"We hung out for a little while after," Justin DiPietro said. "She was a little fussy here and there, but if you'd seen her, you wouldn't have known anything was wrong with her."

The next day, DiPietro left to attend a commercial driver's license course at Lawrence Adult Education in Fairfield. Before he left the driveway, however, Phoebe DiPietro called him back in into the house.

"When I came in, she showed me Ayla's hand and it was swollen," he said.

Ayla wasn't crying, Phoebe DiPietro said. So, the family weighed a decision.

"It was my last class," Justin DiPietro said. "I paid a fairly good amount of money for that."

DiPietro considered skipping class, but his mother advised against it.

"I was, like, 'We have to bring her to the emergency room,' and she said, 'Well, she's fine right now.'"

Phoebe DiPietro said the injury appeared to be a bad bruise, but nothing serious. During the day, however, Phoebe DiPietro noticed the full extent of Ayla's swelling after looking under the toddler's sleeve.

Justin DiPietro said he left class early because he was concerned about Ayla.


Layout of DiPietro home.
If we take what Justin said happened and look at the layout of the home we see he said he entered the side door and walked up some steps that lead into the kitchen. We see the side door in the layout and another door off that hallway into the kitchen, which is where I would assume the steps are. Now is Justin’s story of slipping and falling causing Ayla’s broken arm plausible? Yes it can. Depending on the shoes you are wearing and the material the floor is made of, walking in from the rain could result in a slippery surface. Without knowing what is in that area, walls, cabinets, stuff piled on the floor and without knowing exactly how the fall happened, where Ayla landed, if Justin did land right on her arm, if she clung onto Justin or if her arm flew out, it is hard to say that it didn’t happen this way.

BUT there are a couple things that don’t add up. One is we don’t know the exact date this happened, by Justin’s account we have a wide range of dates that this could have happened and by Trista’s account we have a date that it did not rain the night of the accident. Justin also states she was fussy here and there. What was she doing when she was fussy? Was she trying to pick things up? When she used her arm for things was she fussy? I also don’t buy that she didn’t have a bruise on her arm when she got put in pajamas that night. You add up dad falling on her, a bruised arm and a fussy child, not taking Ayla to the ER after class the next day suspicious.

Greenstick and Buckle fractures can also be caused by blunt force trauma and falling on an outstretched arm. So not only can a fractured forearm be caused by someone falling on top of a child’s arm but can be caused by someone hitting an arm with something or pushing a child so when they put their arms out to protect themselves their arm breaks. My last two causes are abuse but an ER doctor cannot differentiate someone falling on top of an arm versus someone hitting it with something or pushing a child. So why would a doctor not suspect abuse? Because Justin’s story of what happened is a plausible scenario for a broken arm. Plus we don’t know if the story Justin told the media is the same story he told to the doctor. If this was Ayla’s first and only ER visit for an “accident” it wouldn’t be suspicious. If Ayla had no other outward signs of abuse, a broken arm wouldn’t be suspicious for a child. The only suspicious part to a doctor would be waiting so long to take Ayla to a doctor but if Justin reiterated that Ayla wasn’t fussy or crying without the other proof or signs of abuse the doctor would have to take him on his word.

I will disagree with JustStoptheLies by saying the police not only want to find Ayla but they will try to figure out if Ayla was abused or not. As a criminal investigation, the police will try to find a way to prove escalating abuse towards Ayla that resulted in her death. Even with the police saying they conducted extensive interviews and the broken arm was accidental, it could just mean there wasn’t sufficient evidence for saying it was abuse.

As for me, while I don’t buy into Justin’s story completely, I can’t specifically say if Ayla’s broken arm was an accidental fall or the cause of abuse. Only the people who were there the night Ayla broke her arm know the truth of what happened, just like only the people who were in the home the night Ayla went missing are the only one’s who know what happened to her.











59 comments:

  1. "They just put a splint on there with an Ace bandage. She didn't even have a cast or a sling or anything like that."

    "Her arm was to the point now, before all this happened, that she was lifting it up. She wasn't bending it, but she would take (the splint) off sometimes, and she was getting to the point where she was starting to use that arm again," he said

    ####################

    These statements really bother me. It makes me wonder if he/they were caring properly for her arm. To him, it sound like, oh no big deal, they just put a splint and ace bandage. Like he doesn't (or doesn't want to admit) even grasp that her arm was actually broken.

    Also, I'm confused. Did he fall with her outside or in? Just wondering due to where Phoebe says she went in the kitchen - picked Ayla up. Nothing about opening the door etc. I always thought they fell outside. IF it even happened that way.

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    Replies
    1. In the article it says that Justin walked IN the side door and up a short set of stairs into the kitchen. So to me it sounds like the short set of stairs is inside of the house, so you have to walk up to get into the kitchen.

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    2. When my 3rd child broke her arm. I was unaware of how it happen as my mother in law at the time was watching her, with a cousin and she fell off the little wagon that she was in, with her sister, hitting a cement cinder block. She didn't cry and they too, thought she was fine. Three days later, my husband was the one who noticed that she was babying her arm, and not once did she give an indication that her arm was injuried. So I took her to the hospital, where I had to pressured the doctor to Xray her arm. But both of her bones in her one forearm were broken, I felt bad cause I didn't know how she broke them and it wasn't until the doctor called the CPS on me that I would learn that she hurt her arm three days and two people who were watching her, failed to tell me that she fell and may of hurt it. So what I am getting to is that some children are very resilent to pain, like my daughter and I could see that ayla may too, be like my child. Its just an idea that came to my mind. I hope they find her as this is just so sad.

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  2. my husband work in the radiography dept in the Maine med hospital system and has spent time in ER. The fact that she was referred to a specialist is an indication that abuse was suspected. First, as you stated bones of a child skeleton are far different than that of even a child a few years older than Ayla. The nature of this bone tissue is not only softer but is also will heal differently and also reflect an injury differently than an adult. These areas of bone do not show up the same alot of times on x-rays as well.

    Secondly, Maine Med takes abuse reports very seriously not just making them but also from not making erroneous ones. Most likely she was sent to a specialist to make these determinations. When the x-rays are taken if abuse is suspected they will look for markers of abuse, that are not breaks but can show up kinda like bumps. Sometimes they take awhile to show up. A referral to a specialist is the course of action to substanciate and clarify. Remember, because of the spongey and plasticity of the skeleton in a child, it takes quiet a bit a force to actually break a bone in a child. The bone tissue is similar to cartilage and is not brittle like a bone. However cartilage is also avascular meaning very little blood vessel or capillariy association. This means injuries to these areas take a LONG time to heal, even in a child.

    *I just want to state, my husband did not have any association with this patient or patient file. Simply making a comment on the Maine Med protocol in these situations. Unfortunately they happen way to often.

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    Replies
    1. Maybe this is why he wanted to switch doctors (regarding checking into abuse)...

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    2. Thanks for adding this. I couldn'thave find how wellto doctors canhave date aa child's injury. Doctors have a hard line to walk, falsely accusing is just as bad as not filing a report.

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    3. Having broken 3 bones in the last 18 months I have found that the ER is worthless for all breaks and refer everytime to a orthopedic doctor. All the ER will do is splint and give pain meds. It's so annoying that the last 2 bones I just called the ortho doctor and skipped the fees from the worthless ER.
      Even had surgery and was casted, uh hmmm *acciidently * got my cast off after some intense scratching and went to ER to ask them to please just re cast and they refused. Referal to orthopedic is standard procedure these days.

      Delete
    4. Windstorm,

      I am sorry for your injuries. You are an adult. I am speaking in regard to the protocol of a child that comes in for an injury. Regardless of what you think about the ER. Referral to ortho may have been how your situation was handled, but you can't speak about what is standard procedure, you don't work there, you only know it has been standard for you.
      You are combining your opinion of your experience to the how all situations are handled which is subjective and inaccurate.

      Delete
    5. One other point,

      I beleive that Ayla was seen by the ortho in Portland after initally being seen in the Waterville area. And after this inital appointment was scheduled for follow up appointment, which was missed before she was reported missing. This really just supports further that there was a suspicion of abuse by dr.

      Delete
    6. That's what I was thinking regarding the suspicion of abuse.
      I wasn't sure if they had gone to the new ortho yet.

      Delete
  3. "When I came in, she showed me Ayla's hand and it was swollen," he said.

    ###################

    I also never noticed this before. I thought (maybe in a different article) it was stated Phoebe noticed it was swollen some time during the next day when she looked under Ayla's sleeve.


    Anyway, I can't image she slept peacefully through the night, on the night it was broken.

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  4. I had a hairline fracture of my forearm after trying to break a fall. It was incredibly painful for a long time. Poor baby!

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  5. "Projection" is a psychological condition in which someone with emotional or psychological problems projects their problems onto someone else and places blame there. I think that the blog owner should look inward to her own neglect of her own son, turning her back on him while he has cancer.

    It is mind boggling that this article was written by a woman who refuses to care for her own seriously ill son.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You are a horrible person to make this comment and reference a persons child that is sick.

      BTW... Projection is not a psychological condition. It is a term but not any kind of psychological condition. Before you attempt to write a statement that asserts any kink of intelligence it would help to know what your talking about.

      How about making personal attacks. You obviously have a problem with the information she has posted. To close to the truth?

      You have no intelligent or legitimate counter argument so you much make personal attacks. This only exhibits your ignorance and minimal intelligence.

      Delete
    2. Observers do not see an argument of rebuttal but an attack on the article poster's character and life situation where the angered always seize on the perceived area of maximum vulnerability.

      That is a violent pattern.
      You seize on weakness and exploit it.
      It quickly identifies you as infected by the zombie d5-virus.

      Projection is not always what it seems.
      What if the poster is caring for a sick child and this blog is a stress reliever and sense of participation for the greater good.

      Where is the body?
      When you give up the body, even by anonymous means the pressure shall ease briefly. Your on a sinking ship, you think you can hold out forever
      but that is the real "Projection" into the future.

      What is more apropo to discuss is the nature of stress.

      The biggest most powerful aspect to stress is wondering when the stress shall end and having no control over the duration or intensity.
      If blogging is a stress reducer and sense of participation in the greater good for the blogger why involve "A SICK CHILD" in the attack.

      If I was you I would turn off the computer and walk away.
      But you can't because the situation is so stressful and baffling.

      So you display your attack behavior and utilization of a sick child to aid in your attack. I see that as stress induced delusional paranoia.

      The sane want to bury the kid properly and move on.
      That is by no means disrespect to Ayla or her mum and family.
      It is the very way of the world to seek closure on each chapter of life.

      Cough up the body or resign yourself to fight this fight for eternity.

      This shall never end until she is buried properly. This I KNOW.

      Delete
    3. You never use the word in the definition if the word. Before trying to show you've become from your, likely court-ordered, therapy by using "big" words, you should analyze why you need to malign a woman who maintains a blog devoted to finding a lost child. Before writing this comment to you, I asked myself why I feel obligated to mock your intelligence and moral character; I came to the answer that the owner of this blog needs to know that even if she did something horrible in the past (which I don't think you've proved), her good intentions with this blog are recognized. Are you trying to project your anger at what you feel is information presented in a way that implicates Justin or do you have a personal ax to grind against Tori?

      Delete
  6. Talk About HypocrisyMarch 4, 2012 at 9:20 PM

    Tori said that her criminal past was years ago. Well, looks like she was arrested again not all that long ago. http://www.sunjournal.com/node/263725

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    1. Listen, that was already discussed. She openly admitted these things. Nobody cares! We are her to discuss JUSTICE FOR AYLA!

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    2. That is a stretch. Probably unpaid fines related to the mistake she admitted to. What really bugs you is she has moved on and resumed growing up something that takes a life time. How about you, stuck on a highway of deserted cars wondering who caused the traffic jam.

      Desperation is showing.
      When you start throwing sick babies around and five year old cases.
      Shoplifting and First Degree Murder are not in the same universe never mind ballparks.

      Four years ago someone took out a restraining order on me and the cop who served me tried to console me by saying "Don't take it to hard someone's got one out on me too" Sushee happens.

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    3. Who cares? This blog is about Ayla, not the blog owner.


      Where is AYLA BELL REYNOLDS????

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    4. Where do you see hypocrisy in this particular blog entry? Please stop trying to defame this blogger. We can probably bet that half (or more) of the people reading this blog have criminal pasts they're not proud of. "To err is human." She never claimed to be a saint and I'm willing to speculate that you're not even close. I am NOT on either so-called "side" but you're definitely making the DiP's look bad by making comments like that.
      I'm appauled that someone would say such horrible things about another person including personal digs about he son! How would you like it if that was done to you?? Oh wait...you're Anon. At least she has the guts to say what she thinks in an appropriate mannor. You certainly don't.
      I'm sure I'm not alone in the fact that IDC what this blogger's fines weren't paid on time...it is a tough economy and as you so cruely pointed out..her son is sick! So, keep up the good work J4A and T4A:) I hope you continue to stay strong and writing this blog. I like your writing style and will most def keep reading! :)

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    5. Thanks everyone, I also wanted to add, I was arrested for unpaid fines but that is not a criminal charge, the original charge happened in 2001 I believe and did not know I still had fines that were unpaid. I worked at TMobile for years until recently and if anyone wants to call to see how far back they go on their background checks, I believe 5 yrs, that will give you a good idea on how old my indiscretions are. Tmobile wont hire you with a record.

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    6. Tori, since you had to pay bail to get out of jail on the recent charge, that sure looks like criminal charges you were facing. Only someone facing criminal charges has to pay bail to get out of jail.

      Delete
    7. The bail was for the amount of the fine, when the bail was paid I was free to go. Call the courts and ask how a judge applies bail to an unpaid fine and if it is an new criminal charge.

      This blog is optional, if you don't like it, don't read it. I am done defending myself. I am just going to delete ignorant comments.

      Delete
    8. Unfortunately I believe Anon815 has no common courtesy or morals. Please leave if you don't like the conversation. Also if you keep using a persons name, it would be courteous to use your name in return!

      Delete
    9. "Tori, since you had to pay bail to get out of jail on the recent charge, that sure looks like criminal charges you were facing. Only someone facing criminal charges has to pay bail to get out of jail."

      That's not true. I had a fine for an unregistered vehicle about 20 years ago and it was marked as "unpaid" through the court system. They put out a bench warrant for me because of a $90 fine. Arrested me and wouldn't let me go until I paid the "bail" which was the amount of the actually already paid traffic violation.

      Delete
  7. There are several things that are striking--the number one problem being delay in care, and their story just doesn't explain this.
    1. Phoebe discovers Ayla has swelling, points this out to Justin, but then decides she doesn't need medical care? How does that make sense?
    2. Phoebe stated she was concerned about Justin's wrist that had been previously fractured. Therefore, even if we give them a pass for just being ignorant about injuries--this is admission that they both have prior experience with fractures (and a wrist fracture!) and should have known she needed medical care. And if they were so concerned about Justin's wrist, why didn't Justin seek medical care?
    3. Ayla would have not been using her arm, would have cried when they touched it or tried to change her clothes. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out something's wrong as a parent.
    As you said, forearm fractures are very common in children, so it is plausible it may have happened the way Justin said it happened. But the delay in care is a red flag, even Trista said the doctors were initially concerned about the fracture. Too bad they weren't concerned enough to call social services. Maybe things would be different right now.

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    Replies
    1. I'm starting to wonder if maybe the ortho dr WAS suspicious, maybe they were going to report it or did, maybe they were asking "too many" questions for Justins comfort.
      I *feel* strongly that her arm was not being properly cared for.
      I think these things may have caused him to want to change dr's.
      Does anyone know if the last/missed appointment was with the original ortho or a new one? Did he change dr, or was just thinking of it?
      I think her arm (lack of caring for it, dr's asking questions, possibility of dr questioning abuse etc.) may play a role in his decision to do whatever he did to her. Among other things (rage, drugs, maybe $$ - the LIP would be an added "bonus" for him).

      Just some opinions...

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    2. I agree with this--perhaps that is why Justin did not go to a follow up appointment (which as explained by either Heidi or Angela is because he was going to have her see someone in Waterville). If they keep seeing the same doctor, the doctor would eventually catch on if there was a pattern of abuse. I have to say not making the follow up appt. doesn't look good for Justin. Wonder if Ayla was even around at that point. It would be interesting to see if there is any proof if he 1. rescheduled or 2. made an appointment elsewhere. Because if not, well it kinda looks like he wasn't expecting her to be around to take her.

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  8. I just wanted everyone to know, I didn't write this piece, Truth4Ayla did and so far has done an amazing job. Anyone that wishes to bash me and bring my innocent 13 yr old into, please do so on another post. Thanks :)

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  9. T4A and J4A,

    Very well thought out and researched article. Many good points were made. I agree the fall may have happened as described but the delay is and will be the issue based on when the break actually occured and when treatment is actually sought for the first time.

    Off Topic : Can I ask a favor? Im am getting older and going blind so can you Please stick to using the larger font throughout the article. It will help me to be able to read all the information. Thanks!!

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  10. A part that I picked up on..if she noticed ththe extent of the swelling later that next day when she lifted up Aylas sleeve why was it not noticed when they dressed her for the day. Even with a fracture where the bone kind of bens or buckles it is very painfull and Ayla would have been in obviouse discomfort especially when changing her into day cloths so I feel it would have been not only easy to see the swelling earlier in the day as oppose to later in the day and also the discomfort would have easily be recognised. I truly do not see any excuse for this at all.

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  11. T4A, this was very informative. Agree with you police will be looking at the broken arm and every other possible evidence of abuse as they fit together the evidence of what happened to Ayla. It doesn't matter what they thought or did on day one (and it was day one when they said they did interviews, concluded arm break was accidental). They're not on day one anymore.

    Some things worth noting, IMHO:

    * The day after the arm break both Justin and Phoebe supposedly saw Ayla's hand swollen and didn't take her to the ER. Later that day, Phoebe looked under her sleeve... If what they said happened is what happened, then they knew a grown man had fallen on this baby as they both fell to the floor. If they saw a swollen hand in the am, they should have known to look under her sleeve to see if the arm was injured as well.

    * We know Justin did not accurately portray the timing and circumstances of the arm break in that it could not have been all of the following: early November, raining, the night before his last class, etc. That is reason enough to investigate whether the way the arm broke is represented truthfully.

    * This statement is suspicious: ""I was carrying her," he recalled during a Thursday interview with the Morning Sentinel. "Usually I let her walk, but it was raining out that night and it was dark.""

    It was night. It was dark. It was raining. It was the end of a long day. Ayla is 20 months old. He feels to the need to justify that he carried her? Don't buy it.

    He "usually let her walk"-- at night, in the rain, at the end of the day when she's tired and hasn't had dinner and is probably crabby...? This extraneous fact means something. Why is he telling us what he supposedly usually does but allegedly didn't do on this occasion?

    * In another interview Justin said it was ludicrous for people to be questioning whether Ayla's broken arm and other injuries were the result of abuse. What is ludicrous about asking? Whether it is or isn't abuse, the question is reasonable and one any parent would expect. He should be able to see that. Ayla gets a black eye- he allegedly says she got "beat up" in a ball pit in a restaurant that doesn't have a ball pit; she gets a pulled muscle- he says it was from him and her "horsing around;" her arm breaks, and he says he fell on top of her. All of this happened within 50 days or less, depending on when the arm break happened.

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  12. It enrages me to think they just IGNORED Ayla's arm. Is that what you did DiPs? Ayla cried and cried until you finally got off your lazy ass's and took her to the ED?? didn't wanna miss Maury that day or what? Justin, you ARE the father! But sadly, not much of a daddy.

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  13. When I looked at Tristas timeline, I saw where Trista says the ER visit was the 5th of Nov. I read a weather related article saying the fall had to have happened between the 17th -24th of Oct according to Justin's recollection. I am now more confused with the timeline of events surrounding the broken arm. Can anyone help me out?

    I am sure this has been discussed several times, but I have not seen a date when it actually happened and tonight was the first time I saw the Trista timeline

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  14. They didn't take her to an ER or a doctor right away.
    Why ?
    Ayla wasn't taken to her follow up appointments ?
    Why ?
    Because:
    a.) they didn't give a crap
    b.) were afraid of the " abuse" question being asked at the ER
    c.) were too busy
    d.) had a hangover
    e.) had to come up with a story
    f.) all of the above
    .............
    I have grandchildren. They have made trips for medical things ( one of them has asthma ) and one of them was pushed down and injured, one daredevil jumped off some bleachers and cracked the bone in her elbow.
    No one sat around and pontificated or tried to make any medical decisions, the kids were taken right away even tho it was late and everyone's plans were rearranged into the next day. Follow up appointments were made and kept.
    Their parents care about the well being of their kids and do not try to second guess a medical decison. Plus, they don't have x-ray eyes, like Justin and Phoebe.

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    Replies
    1. Sorry, what I meant to ask was if it was a 24 hour delay as has been quoted several times, or was it closer to 2 weeks of a delay?

      Delete
    2. John, if it was a 2 week delay, that would clearly show up on xray. People were wondering if it was a different day, but not weeks difference. As far as I can tell, the reason for speculation anyway, is because of the rain issue and the date of his last class.
      I'm actually wondering if he simply lied about the rain to make it appear more plausible and a better "excuse" that he fell on her - not thinking ahead, that lots of people (that he doesn't even know) would be scrutinizing this.
      The date of his last class COULD have been a different day, other than what everyone thinks.
      The actual day/date given either by Trista OR JD could have been a simple human/memory error. The only thing with that though, JD stated it is "burned into his brain"...

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    3. If I understand correctly

      1. the incident as reported by Justin, which is burned into his brain

      http://www.onlinesentinel.com/news/i-fell-on-herfather-says_2012-01-06.html

      2. the 5 Nov date for the ER visit as reported by Tristas timeline
      3. the dates of the CDL course (6 sept - 27 oct) as reported by the college on page 33 of the link below

      http://midmaine.siteturbine.com/uploaded_files/midmaine.maineadulted.org/files/MMRACE_Fall_2011_Brochure.pdf

      4. The weather reports for mid-oct through early nov in Waterville as indicated by WunderGround

      http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KWVL/2011/10/17/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

      5. the only rainy nights indicated by WunderGround being 19, 20, 22 and 27 Oct (accounting for a rain day the last day of the class would have moved to the 28th)

      If this is all accurate and correct, then the last day of class being the 28th means the broken arm would have occured the 27th at the latest (Justins recollection). The ER visit on the 5th (Tristas recollection) means there was at least 9 days delay in getting Aylas arm treated. Trista can verify the date being Aylas' mother and gaurdian without hippa violations. The incident as described by Justin revolves around the very expensive CDL Course he was taking. Again, the CDL course dates are easily verified through the college without there being a violations of anyones privacy rights. I can't wrap my mind around this if all of this is accurate. If so, this is most definately a felonious child neglect charge for when the investigation is complete.

      Now the speculation on my part, if it was 9 days, could the ER doctor have seen slight signs of healing and that is why he questioned it originally (Tristas recollection as indicated on the timeline)?

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    4. That is possible, but I hope if that was the case, dhhs would have been called, with no hesitation.

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  15. In most situations like these, they can't go to the ER because they are under the influence.

    I did note that Phoebe was concerned with her son's 'injury' but not Ayla's. They made her wait 24 hours before bringing her in...horrific.

    Peter Hyatt

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    1. I have thought this in the past, when wondering why JD didn't bring her to the ER. It just dawned on me though, if all 3 were home, now I'm left wondering if they were ALL under the influence.

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    2. Sooo typical of crazy man Peter Hyatt to *imagine* or guess at something and to then be so quickly convinced in his own mind it is fact. No, Peter facts exist in the real world, a place that YOU seem to be disconnected from.

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  16. To the person who writes this blog,

    There was some information on here under the first blog post about an employee of the methadone clinic who has certain important information and several responses to her. I can't seem to fund those posts now and they were important. Can you please advise where the posts are? Thank you.

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    1. Oh, never mind. I found the posts. All set. Thanks anyways!

      Delete
  17. Off Topic : Can I ask a favor? Im am getting older and going blind so can you Please stick to using the larger font throughout the article. It will help me to be able to read all the information. Thanks!!

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  18. The most bothersome thing I read in this article was that Phoebe was so much more worried about Justins wrist, than Aylas condition. Something there stinks to me. She's not even two, and you're more concerned for your adult son, as opposed to your granddaughter? Yeah those are priorities. They should have taken her to the ER that night, but no they made her wait, and probably be in total agony, while they did god knows what. This whole family should be ashamed of themselves. Poor Ayla!

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  19. John P- the timing is a mystery altogether. When she was reported "disappeared" Dec. 17, some news reports said the arm break happened 3 weeks prior. This would place it in late Nov. Supposedly the missed bone specialist appt. was Nov. 12.

    Kit, you are correct about old injuries being apparent on x-ray but we are relying on Trista's statement of when the ER visit was. The ER records haven't been publicly released so we don't have a confirmed date. While I think Trista's recollection is probably accurate, I think we need to consider also the possibility that she remembered the date incorrectly.

    Maybe Justin made up everything about that night. Too many hinky things in his statements about what happened. Right down to telling us what they ate for dinner. Who mentions what they ate for dinner- who cares what they ate for dinner- when dealing with a trauma like injuring your child. Most parents would feel awful if they fell on any kid and injured her and they would say so when asked about what happened. Justin didn't express any feeling whatsoever toward Ayla.

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    1. I totaly agree with your entire comment, right down to the "lasagna dinner"!

      When people (directly involved such as JD, PD, AH etc.) refer to Ayla's situation as a "diappearance" I find that hinky as well. To the general public yes, missing or disappearance is a common word used, BUT should they not be referring to it as a kidnapping?

      I also find it hinky when people are "sick" of discussing Ayla's arm - see JSTL blog, where JSTL and at least one other appears to have such feelings.

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    2. Thank you for enlightening the situation. At least to the best extent possible with what is known. I can understand both sides now. Thanks again for a clear, factual, two-sided explanation. Kudos to you!!!!

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  20. John P.-I will make the font larger next time.

    According to Trista, Ayla was taken to the ER Nov 5. Justin gave a wide range of dates, it is my opinion that he did this so that in that time frame there was a night where it did rain to go along with his story. Since there is a difference between parents on the date it happened, and such a wide range with Justin's, it is hard to pinpoint if it could have happened the way Justin said.

    As far as the specialist goes, they saw one at MaineOrtho in Portland and I have heard that the reason the follow up appointment was missed was because he canceled that appointment and had scheduled an appointment with a specialist in Waterville. This was stated on the TTLOM Facebook page.

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    1. Thank you for clearing up the details concerning the specialists / Ortho. I know it is not facts presented by MSP or the doctor because of hippa laws, but it is something to help in the understanding of the events.

      And THANK YOU for the fonts being larger next time. Your article was well written and well researched even if I did use a magnifying glass to read some of the smaller print (lol).

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  21. You know, Phoebe's behavior regarding everything to do with Ayla, strikes me as very suspicious. I firmly believe she's just as involved in the whole cover up as the rest of the Dips and Courtney, and I think she may have been instrumental in Ayla's 'disappearance'. Could she have even been the one to come up with the insurance plan? She seems to be doing everything possible to create alibis for herself and Justin, such as the story she's spun about Ayla's broken arm. Ayla must have been screaming in pain when her arm was broken, yet Phoebe deliberately says nothing about that in her story and as other commenters have remarked, her main concern was apparently for Justin's wrist, not the welfare of a small child dependent on them for her care. And yes, the detail about Ayla normally being allowed to walk and only being carried because of the weather is very suspicious, as well as informing people about what they ate for dinner that night. I don't think there was any fall, and am convinced it was abuse by someone in that house - maybe old Phoebe herself.

    Another very odd thing to me is how Phoebe just happened to be away with her lesbian lover on the night that Ayla supposedly disappeared. I believe little Ayla was long gone before that night, as evidenced by Justin's refusal to let Trista speak to her. When they all decided to say that was the night of her disappearance, Phoebe went out and got herself an alibi just to be on the safe side, but not before spinning another tall tale about the regular night they all had at home, eating dinner and going off to bed.

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  22. Maybe she fell down the basement stairs searching for dad in the middle of the night. maybe he/they were afraid to be in trouble so made up an alternative story. People can do things in a panic. That may be why he appears so stoic in the face of his daughter missing. Because to him she is not, he knows where she is? I prefer to think that someone kind has her but the police don't seem to agree with an abduction. Sad, just sad

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    1. I wonder if there is a lock on that basement door? Or, if there was a gate? Children this age may be able to climb over a gate or if it is not firmly in place the weight of her trying to climb it could make it fall, into the basement along with her. I would not trust a gate on a basement door with children that age in the house. I thought I read somewhere back that there was abroken gate there which Justin said was allready broken. Did anyone else read that?

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  23. Justice. Stop conversing with John P. He is using you and you are biting.

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  24. TRUTH 4 ayla and J4Ayla, stop talking to John P. You are being set up.

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    1. Huh? How so? He has been nothing but gracious. Please explain further because at this point I'm not buying what you are selling...

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